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guest: May 20th, 2002 16:52 GMT Print this post








Post: #15943
PT: #1/37


I've heard from several sources that Garvin pinned Andre in Knoxville.  Has anyone else heard if this is true or not?

"Flatland is quite boring for us rhombi."

-Edwin A. Abbott, Flatland


guest: May 20th, 2002 23:36 GMT Print this post








Post: #15944
PT: #2/37


Just scroll down towards the bottom of the page to "Garvin Pins Andre!!!" (sorry maxx) and it has the info on it.  If Tojoboy & Ken Carson say it happened, I believe it !!!

Edited by: freighttrain at: 5/20/02 5:19:43 pm

MSTOMPER May 20th, 2002 23:39 GMT Print this post
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Post: #15945
PT: #3/37


We've covered this earlier, and people who ought to know say that Garvin pinned him.  I only saw tape of Garvin hitting Andre with everything but the kitchen sink, but didn't actually see the pin.  Ron ought to get himself over to the board and settle this once and for all.




"You can't hit me because it is against the law."
-Angelo "The Miser" Poffo to Ronnie Garvin
PM: MSTOMPER
guest: May 21st, 2002 18:26 GMT Print this post








Post: #15946
PT: #4/37


The story goes that his win wasn't covered in any of the magazines, but I tend not to believe it.  I've only heard about it in wrestling fora and have never seen the win included in any bio on him.

"Flatland is quite boring for us rhombi."

-Edwin A. Abbott, Flatland


mrknoxville May 22nd, 2002 03:36 GMT Print this post
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Post: #15947
PT: #5/37


i can't recall any angles from the knoxville end of SECW ever getting mentioned in any magazines, especially the apter mags. i do remember seeing filmed highlights being of the garvin/andre match being shown on the weekly television show, i just don't recall a pin ever being shown, though it was alluded to during the commentary of the match and for several weeks after that.


PM: mrknoxville
guest: May 22nd, 2002 13:56 GMT Print this post








Post: #15948
PT: #6/37


It happened. You'll never see  footage of it, as Andre agreed to the pin, but, only if the pinfall was not taped. Referee Tommy Weathers, a longtime Fuller S.E. ref in Knoxville & the whole area, was working the area then, & he's lived here where I do (Cleveland, Tenn.) for many years, & he & I & Ron West (another longtime ref & wrestling official-he also lives in this area) have had several talks about past matces, angles, etc. that took place in this area years ago. Tommy said yeah, it happened, Ronnie pinned Andre (hey--so did the Sheik pin Andre, in Toronto)--Andre did it as a favor to Ron--a friend of his, with the agreement that only folks in this area know of it, the pin not be taped, & promoter Ron Fuller paid Andre a little extra for doing it. It REALLY helped get Garvin over as a "killer heel" back in 1977. Now, if others choose not to believe that it really happened, that's their choice, of course.  


guest: May 22nd, 2002 19:42 GMT Print this post








Post: #15949
PT: #7/37


Hey Ken Carson
Ron West and Tommy Weathers are 2 of the best.
Ask tommy about the time in Ky when a brawl broke out in the first match and they were told to pack it up and leave.
He has some great stories.
maybe you could get him to tell some on here.


guest: May 23rd, 2002 00:40 GMT Print this post








Post: #15950
PT: #8/37


As mr.k-ville pointed out, the so called "Apter mags" were based in New York City and they had a very heavy WWWF bias. At that time Bruno Sammartino and Andre were big favorites of theirs, and I'm sure they sold a lot of mags with them on the cover. They gave very little coverage to the smaller southern territories, and in some cases no coverage . So instead of them trying to explain Ron Garvin pinning Andre "The Undefeated"  Giant, they just ignored it. In fact, in the '70s, I do not recall them ever mentioning Andre being pinned, even though he had by Inoki,Don Leo Johnathan,Sheik and maybe a couple others. The WWF maintained Andre was "undefeated" until WM3 I believe.


guest: May 23rd, 2002 06:32 GMT Print this post








Post: #15951
PT: #9/37


Did Inoki pin Andre?  I know he beat him by submission.

"Flatland is quite boring for us rhombi."

-Edwin A. Abbott, Flatland


guest: May 24th, 2002 00:20 GMT Print this post








Post: #15952
PT: #10/37


Deca, due to Andre's mystique, a lot of these pinfalls are questioned . Throw in the rarity of Andre being pinned, plus the time frame ('70s especially) and the kayfabe nature, it just adds to the confusion. I will submit this information as best I can recall and reserve the right to be wrong at any time. Any of you really smart guys (Crimson,Tojo,Carson,JTFF etc.) feel free to help out.

We will not include Andre's very early career in France and Europe where it is almost certain he was pinned, but we have little info from that period. We will concentrate on North America and Japan and just (at least supposed) pinfalls.

Let me correct myself on  Don Leo Jonathan . The famous match was won by DLJ via dq, although I recall DLJ getting a pin somewhere but I may be wrong.

During Andre's very early (maybe first) Japan tour he was pinned by Inoki and Sakaguchi. However, even on some  Inoki fansites, this is not recognized. Two famous Inoki matches are in '76 Inoki won via "tko" when Andre was "knocked out", and the famous submission victory in '86 which was the "first time" Andre  submitted.

During the '70s in the Detroit area or Canada, The Sheik pinned Andre. It probably was through "dirty" means (object,fire etc.) since that was Sheik's  game.

Harley Race during one fall of a 2 of 3 match when Harley was NWA champ . Again, it is possible Race won via countout or something, but match was a time limit draw, each with one fall.

El Canek in a very famous match in Mexico early '80s won with a slam and pin.

And, of course the Hogan WM3 match.




Edited by: freighttrain at: 5/24/02 6:15:07 pm

guest: May 25th, 2002 05:01 GMT Print this post








Post: #15953
PT: #11/37


I've seen the ending of the match Inoki won by submission.  It was a double chicken wing or something.  

There is also an Andre the Giant match that I've heard rumors about all over Japan (I lived in Asia for 4 years), but always from unreliable sources.  Everyone heard it from a friend, and the one guy who said he saw this match also told me he once did... well something I don't quite believe involving stewardesses (which, by the way, is the longest word in the English language that one can type using just the left hand, but I'm entirely circumnavigating the point and overpunctuating this response; I'm near the end of a bottle of Blue Nun).  

Getting back to the match, this was right after the famous event where Akira Maeda broke Choshu's cheekbone in a six man match.  Before firing Maeda (who subsequently went on to reform the original UWF (Union of Wrestling Force)); there was an interim of over four months between the kick and the firing; Inoki supposedly, in 1987 or 1988, booked a match between Maeda and Andre.

My friend with the stewardesses went in to quite a bit of detail on this match (if he was telling the truth, this would have taken place just under a year after Wrestlemania III (I just finished the bottle of Blue Nun)), talking about how Andre wouldn't cooperate with Maeda, taking up a boxing stance (my friend demonstrated it) while Maeda started throwing kicks to Andre's legs and body (like the Ali-Inoki fight, which SUCKED!).  Eventually, according to my friend who, as I've already mentioned, is an avid liar (but I've heard this same story third hand from several other people), Inoki went to the ring and stopped the bout.

Looking back at this post, it's hard to take it with anything more than humor, but I do tink dere's a point in there somewhere, if you look hard enough.

"Flatland is quite boring for us rhombi."

-Edwin A. Abbott, Flatland


guest: May 25th, 2002 13:21 GMT Print this post








Post: #15954
PT: #12/37


The above mentioned Maeda and Andre incident did happen. I have it on tape. Andre just quits cooperating & no-sells everything Maeda does. This infuriates Maeda, who starts to "shoot" on Andre. Andre just stands there and laughs at Maeda.  


guest: May 25th, 2002 15:08 GMT Print this post








Post: #15955
PT: #13/37


WS is right. It happened pretty much as he said. This is known as the "non cooperation" match. WS, if you watch the tape, you will notice Maeda looking to the NJPW agents asking if he could "shoot" on Andre. Inoki comes out and ends the match. The story is Andre had a couple drinks and was going to show Maeda he wasn't as tough as he thought he was. Maeda had come back to NJ after the original UWF closed and the UWF guys were getting over with the " shoot style " in NJ at the time.

Deca, this happened in spring '86 (I think April) and was before the Maeda-Choshu "shoot kick" incident which was late '87 (I think Oct. or Nov.).

Still at the time of this incident, Andre was not someone to mess with in the ring.  Maeda did not move in on Andre and was very cautious. It has been said by many wrestlers that in his prime years, before injury and his disease took it's toll, Andre was so naturally strong and massive he could not truly be beaten.


guest: May 25th, 2002 15:53 GMT Print this post








Post: #15956
PT: #14/37


I knew parts of the story my friend told me were erronius (notably the timeline).  The Choshu kick was actually in November of 1987.

"Flatland is quite boring for us rhombi."

-Edwin A. Abbott, Flatland


guest: May 25th, 2002 19:14 GMT Print this post








Post: #15957
PT: #15/37


Another part of the Andre -Garvin match that not many know is that this bout was really a handicap match--but, not like you'd expect!! This all took place during the summer of 1977 in Knoxville, & heel Ron Garvin was involved in a small feud with Roy Lee Welch. Garvin was bragging on tv that he could not only beat Roy Lee easy, but, that he could pin Roy Lee & any partner that Roy Lee would want to get, that he (Garvin) could beat them both in a handicap match. To make a long story short, Welch ended up surprising Garvin with ANDRE as his (Welch's) partner.
  So, that's how the match took place.I have the Knoxville newspaper clipping for it somewhere in my nostalgia boxes. It was Ron Garvin vs. Roy Lee Welch AND Andre the Giant.But, to the fan's shock, & to their dismay (of course, this REALLY got Ron G. over as a KILLER HEEL) Garvin pinned Roy Lee first, then pinned Andre later, after a rough match! Andre was a true pro for putting Ron over.  


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