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This message was edited by Papa Shango Voodoo on November 03rd, 2020 03:17 GMT
BTSPOD 72
Great episode.
Interesting stuff about WWF vs the PA athletic commission and concern that wrestling would be a "blade fest" if decommissioned. I wonder how much of this opened the door for hardcore wrestling in that state?
The JCP stuff is interesting too. Buying time in NY on WPIX would be one big step towards covering 70% of the country, which would categorize JCP as "nationally syndicated". Bix brings up a good point about barter vs. buying time.
The October, 16 1987 MSG show headlined by Superstar Graham vs. Butch Reed was on a Friday night and sold out. MSG was always an outlier.
They read from WON who points out that the November 1987 MSG show is the day before JCP at Nassau Coliseum. I'm guessing WWF had their MSG dates long before JCP and it's a coincidence.
Then Thanksgiving Week in mentioned. Kris mentions having the entire week off from school. Bix points out that he only had a four day weekend. I went to NYC public school and it was the same.
The try to figure out why the Tuesday November 24, 1987 MSG show did so well when many kids and school and adults work the next day. Thanksgiving Tuesday was festive. We had school on Wednesday but it was usually a school play or pumpkin pie brought by a generous teacher. No tests or reports due. I can see why MSG did so well on a Tuesday night that week.
They also talk about spot shows. In 1987 WWF ran MSG and Nassau Coliseum monthly so there really was no point in doing all the small gyms and auditoriums around Queens, Brooklyn, and Long Island. Staten Island is kind of isolated so running Wagner makes sense.
They cut back on spot shows for sure. Most of the Catholic school auditoriums like St. Finbar's, Regina Pacis, St. Thomas of the Apostle(Jamaica Ave) were inadequate and really hold only 500 fans.
Rent at Nassau Coliseum in 1987 would be about $10,000-$15,000 plus staffing, or a total of $30,000.
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This message was edited by Eater of the Dead on October 20th, 2020 13:26 GMT
This may deserve its own topic, but regarding your first paragraph about the Pennsylvania State athletic Commission... Was it that well known that blading is how they got blood? I realize that 20/20 did the expose, but was it really common knowledge where the athletic commission can specifically say no bleeding? What if the promotion said we can't help it if people bleed... you know, maintaining kayfabe. I mean, if they were regulated by the athletic commission, it means they were considered a sport right? So why would they be able to tell WWF no bleeding anymore than they could tell boxing promotions no bleeding?
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 Bix |
October 22nd, 2020 03:08 GMT |
 
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This message was edited by Bix on October 22nd, 2020 03:37 GMT
Quoted from: Eater of the Dead, October 20th, 2020 13:25 GMTThis may deserve its own topic, but regarding your first paragraph about the Pennsylvania State athletic Commission... Was it that well known that blading is how they got blood? I realize that 20/20 did the expose, but was it really common knowledge where the athletic commission can specifically say no bleeding? What if the promotion said we can't help it if people bleed... you know, maintaining kayfabe. I mean, if they were regulated by the athletic commission, it means they were considered a sport right? So why would they be able to tell WWF no bleeding anymore than they could tell boxing promotions no bleeding?
We talk about it on the podcast episode, but the catalyst was that at the '86 Great American Bash card in Philly, Wahoo McDaniel got the blade stuck in his scar tissue and squeezed it out into a sink...right in front of commissioner J.J. Binns. He threatened to shut the show down if there was any more blood.
From the transcript of the hearing where Linda McMahon, Binns, and others testified, which I read from a little during the show, here's some of what Binns said:
Now, when I speak of the health, safety and welfare of the wrestlers, it has come to our attention that in the past, professional wrestlers, in order to earn more money have engaged in the practice of flicking their foreheads with razor blades in order to draw blood to excite the crowd. We have, as a Commission, taken a position in Pennsylvania that that is no longer allowed. This position was not accomplished without some degree of hostility on the part of both wrestlers and promoters. However, it is a fact that if any member of the Committee would like to accompany me to a wrestling show, I could demonstrate to you by physical examination of the wrestlers, that they have engaged in this practice in the past and in fact continue to engage in it in states other than the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We take the position that it is dehumanizing to permit or cause a professional athlete to do that to himself in an effort to earn more money and we continue to do that.
We have had instances where I have directed a doctor to examine wrestlers immediately after they have cut themselves with razor blades, and in at least one instance, the wrestler refused and we had to confront the promoter with the prospect of closing his show down on that spur of the moment unless he submitted to the examination by the physician, and there were written reports evidencing this. We continue to incur problems with wrestlers coming in from other states already having cut themselves a day or two before and then having the cut opened up. But we have a policy that if they continue to do that, we suspend them and I have done that in the past. It. seems to be clearing the problem up.
He doesn't mention the Wahoo incident, but later, he does say that he had a blading ban in effect "for about the past three or four years," so maybe there was an additional inciting incident if his timeline was accurate. Meanwhile, this is the only reference to blading in the Sunset Audit report that led to the ad-hoc committee being formed to look into potentially getting rid of the commission:
Although no athletic contest is involved in a professional wrestling event, continued state regulation of professional wrestling appears necessary to protect the safety and welfare of both participants and members of the audience. Without state regulatory involvement, there would be few controls to prevent promoters or wrestlers from becoming overzealous in their pursuit to obtain an audience for their shows. For example, the auditors were informed of and have seen evidence of abuses perpetrated by professional wrestlers, including the drawing of blood by self-inflicted wounds (specifically, cutting one's forehead with a razor blade). Some fans at professional wrestling events attended by the auditors chanted phrases such as "We want blood," so without controls promoters and wrestlers might be tempted to satisfy this segment of the audience.
Useful further reading:
* November 1987 Philadelphia Inquirer article on the whole situation.
* Irv Muchnick's article on the larger deregulation push from the June 1988 issue of Washington Monthly.
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The Philly Cage match with Bruno/Orndorff vs. Orton/Piper....I think all bled...I'm sure an athletic commission person witnessed this and I think it was the last time their was juice on a Philly WWF show.
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Great stuff thank you... never saw these detailed reports before
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Quoted from: wrestlevessel, October 24th, 2020 17:28 GMTWeird MSG had a Tuesday show.
Not really. It was a Thanksgiving Week and enough people the next day off or half-day at school or work and would see it as similar to a weekend date.
When I started going to MSG in 1982 the WWF had already started the March matinee, summer weekend dates, and a show the week of Christmas, the predecessor to what is now the Holiday Tour.
I think Kris and Bix find it funny tha that WWF is running the same week as the NWA debut at Nassau Coliseum. WWF most likely had the date long in advance and NWA probably got their date over the summer when WWF attendance dropped(at the Coliseum) and when Neil Sulkes took over the Coliseum.
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This message was edited by Papa Shango Voodoo on November 03rd, 2020 03:18 GMT
BTSPOD 73
This week they revisit October 1986.
JCP is building towards Starrcade. They talk about Magnum TA's tragic accident and how it was hard to replace him in main events. Ron Garvin is mentioned as someone who stepped up but it wasn't the same.
UWF section talks about Jim Duggan possibly leaving for WWF. I forgot Joe Savoldi wrestled there. Wonder why? Maybe I'm reading in to it, but I'd bet it was because Watts had plans to run the northeast off U68(which was strong and had a popular wrestling strip) and considered working with Savoldi who had extensive experience running NY, PA, NJ, CT and MA.
WWF section discusses Dan Spivey's issues with Adrian Adonis. The box office bonanza that is Hogan vs Orndorff.
They also talk about The Machines. I liked them. They seemed like the right act for non-Hogan dates in cities like Hershey, New Haven, Worcester, and Dayton, or as a semi-main on the Hogan shows.
The Machines actually got the main event slots in MSG and Boston Garden with "Guest Machines" as Kris puts it.
They should have pointed out that Machines got such prominent roles in these cities while Hogan vs Orndorff went to Providence(as the Boston-metro date) and Nassau Coliseum(as the NY market venue instead of MSG).
Another good episode.
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Combined two threads in this one. Any other shows posted can continue in this thread.
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| Gertner |
November 04th, 2020 03:56 GMT |
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| Bix |
November 04th, 2020 05:57 GMT |
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Could someone please edit the thread title to have the actual name of the podcast? Thanks!
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Love Between The Sheets! Those guys are funny. They point out a lot of ridiculous things going on in Pro Wrestling during the 1980's and 1990's.
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Just listened to Ep. #92 Apr. 19-25 1995
A lot of AAA and CMLL stuff.
The new Spanish network Meltzer refers to was "MexiVision". But Bix was right it never happened.
KWHY 22 was to be the flagship with Ch. 49 Houston(became Pax) and some LPTV repeaters on board in San Jose, and Phoenix.
By April, KWHY already knew that their contract with Televisa was ending at the end of the 1995. This meant Galavision would be the exclusive broadcaster of Televisa produced Lucha Libre in 1996.
Ron Skoler was right about the Forum hurting attendance for his CMLL show that year. LA Sports Arena would have done better. The Forum had a bad rep and was the least desirable venue in the market for Hispanic families. Arrowhead Pond was the premiere venue for a while. LA Forum had trouble attracting crowds and competing for dates which is why it was sold to a church. Today things are different.
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Bix finds it interesting that Victor Quinones has a NY accent.
That's because he is from NYC. When I met him at the Meadowlands before a SuperAstros taping, he told me that he was born in Manhattan in Alphabet City and that he's Jewish. He told me his last name and it was an uncommon name like Kornblum or something like that.
He told me that his connections to wrestling were first established in NYC, not Puerto Rico. His stepfather had strong connections to the NYSAC. It was when he was a young adult that he used those NY connections to work with people in both PR, NYC and eventually around the world.
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