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Topics: 21
Replies: 192
Member
Post: #552349
PT: #1/24
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1. Gene Kiniski
2. Don Leo Jonathan
3. Bob Brown
4. Dutch Savage
5. John Quinn
6. John Tolos
7. Kinji Shibuya
8. Dean Higuchi
9. Steven Little Bear
10. Guy Mitchell
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Butcher Boy
Topics: 66
Replies: 1566
Member
Post: #552366
PT: #2/24
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Great list, I would add The Brute to it, Kovacs told me personally that he is all time money maker.
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Topics: 21
Replies: 192
Member
Post: #552479
PT: #3/24
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Really? Didn't know that, and I barely remember The Brute (Bugsy McGraw, right?) The late 60s to mid 70s was a Golden Age for wrestling in Vancouver, with Kiniski coming home and popping the territory after his world champ gig. It's kind of too bad that it didn't last longer, but it seems like all the West Coast territories were tanking by the late 70s (except Portland remained relatively healthy.)
All-Star in the 80s had plenty of great talent, but suffered having few big names (was Tomko just cheap, or what?), and mind-bogglingly horrible booking. Looking at tapes and video on YouTube of All-Star in the 80s, it stands the test of time quite well, you can see how good a lot of the wrestlers were in the ring, but I remember back in the day having cable and all sorts of other wrestling options to watch, and I just had to change the channel because the other promotions had bigger names, better booking, or more professional TV presentation. To me back then, it kind of tarnished the legacy of the promotion. Can anybody come up with a Top 10 for the 80s? I didn't watch it consistently enough.
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Butcher Boy
Topics: 66
Replies: 1566
Member
Post: #552509
PT: #4/24
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Vancouver was smokin hot. Even after Tomko took over is was hot for about 3 years. Then things started to go. Vancouver stayed hot only because Tomko would bring in the top Portland guys but the rest of the territory was crashing. As for having top named talent, sometimes it isn't necessary. Look at Stampede in the early 80's. Not a big name amongst them but great booking and very hard workers. But back to Vancouver, wrestling was so big that you could buy Dutch Savage and Brute T-shirts in department stores.
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Topics: 21
Replies: 192
Member
Post: #552690
PT: #5/24
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I guess I chose Stampede over All-Star at the time because there was always this aura, this total buzz of excitement around the promotion, especially when the Hart brothers, Dynamite Kid and the other Japanese and British wrestlers and other mid-heavyweights took the promotion in a fresh, high-flying direction in the early 80s. 84 sucked for Stampede, so I tuned back into All-Star a little more frequently, but to me the All-Star of the 70s was dead. Again, looking back, watching matches out of time and context, the 80s All-Star stuff was MUCH BETTER than I remembered, and I've recently gotten some joy watching matches featuring the likes of Bruiser Costa (hilarious dude!), Mike Dupree, Spider Web, Jonathan Sayers, etc., guys who flew under my radar at the time. Seriously... when Sgt. Tomko or "JR Bundy" would come on, it would be time for me to change the channel. I've watched most of the All-Star stuff on this YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ageless1
and I think the in-ring work is just as good as any other promotion at any other time, it's just that All-Star seemed to suffer in terms of booking and presentation, especially when, with cable by the mid-80s, I had the chance to watch Stampede, WWF, AWA, UWF, WCW, International and even West Four from Winnipeg... All-Star was on TV no matter where I lived or visited in Canada at the time, but it was always my second, third or fourth choice because the other promotions either had bigger names or better booking. It also didn't help that All-Star was pretty much the only promotion that didn't get any coverage in the wrestling mags, which kind of gave it a minor league feel. I also think they should've kayfabed the weight of some of the smaller guys, I swear they used to announce Rick Davis as weighing something like 165 pounds. Stampede never claimed any of their guys to be under 200, although a lot of them probably were.
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Topics: 21
Replies: 192
Member
Post: #552700
PT: #6/24
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And, yeah, I'd be really curious to see a "Top 10 of the 1980s" list here. I don't feel I'm educated enough about the angles and titles of this era to make a good case for any of them.
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Topics: 48
Replies: 617
Member
Post: #558604
PT: #7/24
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Hmmm...I'd like to try but KNOW I am going to be all over with the timeframe(s) of the guys who worked there in the 80's.
Bruiser Costa
Mike Dupree
Terry Adonis
Moondog Moretti
The Jackal
ET Stanton
Diamond Timothy Flowers
Bulldog Bob Brown
Dr. Dan Denton
Jonathon Sayers
There....I know there were so many others through the decade and even a few name guys who stopped by - but these are the first 10 guys who popped into my head when I thought back to watching it on the old CKVR Channel 3 out of Barrie Ontario.
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Topics: 24
Replies: 1117
Member
Post: #558645
PT: #8/24
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Hey "still fabin'...
Thanks for remembering me and putting me on your list. Of course, there were many others as you mentioned. The guys like me that worked there tried very hard to keep up with the rest of the wrestling world, but you have to stop and consider what we were up against. The MAIN problem was the producer of the BCTV show...he DESPISED wrestling and begrudgingly continued to produce the show because it got such good ratings on the CTV network, and he associated his name with it when it served his purposes. The other thing was that in the middle to late 80's on, the whole business belonged to Al. HE was the final say, end all be all, the boss. I, along with a few other I'm sure, asked, begged, and pled with him to relinquish some if not all of the booking responsibilities and tried to explain it would free him up to concentrate on other aspects of the business. He never would even hear of it as far as i know. I don't know how many people know this but I even offered to dio it for FREE, on a trial basis with my end being that if it worked and houses came up substantialy, he would make me a new deal for money at the end of the three month trial period. When he said no, I offered him the same deal to just let me do Vancouver Island towns only, using Island t.v (Ch 6 which ran the show). to cut separate promos for the Island and bringing back the Vancouver Island Title as a singles title to be defended on the Island only. He again said "no" stating that he had ideas that would pop the territory, including featuring his sons Todd and Terry in prominent roles, even though I gave him my word they both would be looked after in storyline. At that point I pretty much gave up on that end and the last disagreement Al and I had in 1985 or 86, was the final one and I moved back to the States for good.
Al would cancel angles and start them with no rhyme or reason, and I grew up and was educated to the business under Roy Shire where just about everything had a reason and made sense, so I was pretty much frustrated working in that territory, but my family was there and I always hoped the business there would turn around.
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| A proud member of old school pro wrestling...when you had to know how to work....and KAYFABE.
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Post: #558678
PT: #9/24
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I think your last run was in 85 Ed.Here's Al's idea of booking. He had a HOT angle with Ed/Jerry Morrow vs Jackal and Stanton and a Canadian tag title bout with Todd/Ricky Patterson vs me and Sonny Myers.When I say hot I mean both bouts had real heat from legit build ups, usually working around Al,which Sonny and I did, and I'm sure which Elton,Ed etc. did.So,the week before the big card, Al fires Ed,or Ed quit,I can';t recall, and Al takes his place in the tag. Sonny and myself and Ricky/Todd had been plugging the tag title bout on TV, and we get there and Al tells us we're in single bouts.The place is packed, with a line around the building. Sonny and I pleaded, even told Al we would go under two straight, take the tag belts from us, just HAVE THE MATCH.We expected him to take the tag belts anyway.So,he books it a dq and we kept the belts even though we were supposed to drop them by agreement from the week before.At the end of the night, Al tells us he drew the crowd,even though he wasn't even booked.My hair fell out from genetics, I think Ed's went thin from dealing with Al.I've always believed that.  
When we would go to restaurants with Ed,particularly on the island, Ed ALWAYS got mobbed.Some of the boys would periodically bring this up to Al and why don't we use him,and it was always shot down.I never got it.Usually, if we did draw, Al would seem pissed.It was weird.
Welcome back Ed, BTW!
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Topics: 126
Replies: 2047
Member
Post: #558689
PT: #10/24
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I'm suprised Al's territory lasted as long as it did! As Paddy Ryan would have said-Al was the best of a bad crop(as far as Al being a promoter). Greg. PS Al had decent talent-he just didn't know how to use it!!
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Topics: 24
Replies: 1117
Member
Post: #558730
PT: #11/24
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Thanks Mike!!!
You were always a good friend and very supportive as you are here.
The story with me leaving Al was this. The Friday before Cloverdale (Saturday) Al calls me at the house in Victoria. Al had taken me off the road and was only using me at T.V. and on the Island (sometimes). He stated that "he didn't need me". Anywho, he calls me Friday night and tells me that he would not pay for my ferry over to the mainland. I had an agreement with him when he took me off the road a month or so before that he would pay for my ferry when I had to do any shots on the mainland. It was HIS deal. Knowing that he would be paying me a minimum amount, and that I would have to pay for lodging and a ferry both ways, I told him that there was no way I could make the shot without going in the hole. He told me to "stay home then". That was a sign to me and the last conversation I ever had with Al Tomko. He told the boys that I "no showed" but a few of them were wise to what had happened. I left for the states shortly thereafter.
Paddy Ryan was correct as Greg stated. Decent talent with no direction.and no chance. 
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| A proud member of old school pro wrestling...when you had to know how to work....and KAYFABE.
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Topics: 24
Replies: 1117
Member
Post: #558738
PT: #12/24
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As an afterthought to my post about why the territory failed..
If you remember back to the days the Portland crew were coming up for t.v. and the PNE Gardens, I'll bet you didn't know this. The Portland crew would go over the Vancouver crew in the matches at both the Gardens and in the t.v. studio, or we'd be relegated to the undercard while the Portland guys main evented. This would be Mondays (The Gardens) and Tuesday(T.V.) When wednesday came around and for the next two weeks, the Portland boys returned to Don Owen and we (Vancouver crew) hit the road in B.C on our own. We were just beat and showcased as under-card talent on out T.V show, yet expected to work angles and draw money in all our towns. The people in B.C had all seen the show and some of them even got Owen's Seattle/Tacoma t.v on cable. Why would they want to come and see a (percieved) bunch of losers and preliminary wrestlers? Even the Portland guys thought this was crazy, but they were making good money to come to B.C. The B.C crew barely made a living, but hoped it would turn around, which it never did. Lots of us could not get into other territory's as they were full, or the wrestler stuck it out and saved enough money so they could leave. A few of us stuck it out because we loved the business and felt we could really do nothing else. The boys here may have had heat with each other, fought, and ribbed each other mercilessly, but we all stuck together as a (disfunctional as it was) family and brothers in order to cope and survive.
Thank you to those of you that were with me during those years, and thank you to our fans who never gave up on us. 
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| A proud member of old school pro wrestling...when you had to know how to work....and KAYFABE.
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Topics: 21
Replies: 192
Member
Post: #558759
PT: #13/24
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Hey Ed and Mike, thank you so much for sharing your stories and experience, I really respect you for the job you did, the hard work you put in entertaining the fans, and the crap you had to endure. Good job, mates!
I hope I didn't come across insulting above when I said I started to tune into other wrestling programs in the mid-80s. Like I said, I don't think it's your fault, and it sounds like Tomko was a pretty out to lunch boss - but looking at your old matches today - well, I'm just sorry I under-appreciated you guys in your own time, you were great in the ring, and you've brought me some great joy. Thanks!
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Topics: 48
Replies: 617
Member
Post: #558762
PT: #14/24
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When it comes down to it, It's ALL in the presentation isn't it? What was Al thinking in bringing Don's boys up and putting every one of his own hometown crew under in THEIR towns...I guess Al only knows the answer to that one..  I know that Al had tunnel vision and only really felt he and his sons were worth pushing, and I have ribbed Dupree on this several ties about Rick Davis being the All-Star 'Hulk Hogan', but if you are to sit down and take a look at a lot of the All-Star talent in its later days vs. what the other promotions were putting on TV - it's the production values that hurt it a lot as well.
I know that Al brought in a lot of guys who let's face it - should NOT have been on TV - BUT - he had a lot of solid and experienced talent as mentioned in other posts, who could have done great business if given the book. Add to that the fact that many of the All-Star TV main events were really good matches, but you had Ed Karl (no offence to Ed - nice guy but he sounded like he was hosting a Romper Room every week with that voice..LOL) calling matches in the studio, compared to the WWF/NWA/WCW/Stampede airing matches from larger buildings which by this stage of the game made All-Star look very small. If you were to take a WWF, or 'Atlanta' broadcast and compare nothing but match and worker quality, other than the roids and the glitz of good production many matches were comparable based on quality.
I know I have related this privately in the past to both Dupree and Moretti, but Tomko's sons (especially Terry) called up here to Ontario to a few promoters back in the late '80's; complaining about their dad and begging for work if anything was open for them. At the time it didn't make any sense in one way, but I have kicked myself looking back as All-Star had solid ratings in Ontario and everyone (fans) seemed to know who they were. More than anything, my personal decision was based on having to possibly deal with Al in any way; but to have brought Ed and Chris, Tim Flowers, and even Al's sons in - probably would have been good business. (Sorry guys!)
Damned hindsight!!!
Anyways, I think that so many have laughed so long and hard at Al himself that the quality and knowledge of many of the boys who worked the territory were/are underappreciated for their work and contribution to the business - and THAT is sad.
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Topics: 24
Replies: 1117
Member
Post: #558841
PT: #15/24
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Quite honestly, Todd (Rick Davis) and Terry (The Frog) were embarrassed most of the time having to do the things they did. Todd was a nice guy but was only in the business because his dad wanted him to be. He would have been glad to have done anything else. He was an okay worker and when paired up with a good babyface partner, he did okay. Terry ended up being a good talent (as I remember it) and a fun guy to have around. He was indeed one of the boys and wanted so much to branch out and make a name for himself. His tag with Buddy Wayne as a partner caught alot of attention, and I remember hearing that houses jumped and the t.v. was watchable. Can't even begin to tell you what Al was thinking back in that time. I guess it's only something he would know and understand. I just know that when any of us went to other areas that got the show (Calgary, Ontario, The Maritimes) everybody knew who we were and seemed excited to see us. Go figure! 
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| A proud member of old school pro wrestling...when you had to know how to work....and KAYFABE.
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