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Topics: 8
Replies: 74
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Post: #702441
PT: #1/21
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I can't remember the date of the podcast, as I'm always behind on them, but he was asked for his opinion of Gary Hart's book. He basically said it was a page turner and informative, but in the end, he didn't like it.
He said it left him with the opinion that Gary Hart looked down on southern people, and he didn't share Mr. Hart's opinion of Tennessee wrestling and Jerry Jarrett.
Now, I'm from rural east Tennessee, and while it was clear that Gary Hart didn't like a lot of the stuff they did in Memphis (and obviously didn't care for Jerry Jarrett), I never got the idea that he disliked southern people in general. The only thing I can think of that might have given Stern the idea was the use of the word "hillbillies." But, as I recall, it was used in reference to the territory and not the general population.
He gave Mr. Hart credit for being a great booker and all around wrestling mind, though he questioned some things in the book (no specifics given) and said he never cared for Hart as a manager, feeling he was too bland (I don't get that, but everyone has an opinion.)
I typically enjoy Stern's podcasts, as he mostly talks about the territories, and gives more attention to southern territories and some of the more obscure wrestlers from those days. This particular bit caught me off guard a bit.
I was just wondering what you thought about this opinion of your dad's book and the notion that he didn't like southern people.
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Topics: 2521
Replies: 17960
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Post: #702453
PT: #2/21
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Look at where Gary worked from 1960 - 1990. Please make any corrections
1960 - 1963 (Chicago)
1963 - 1965 (Detroit)
1966 (Amarillo)
1967 - 1968 (Dallas)
1969 - 1970 (Sydney)
1971 - 1973 (Charlotte)
1973 (Atlanta)
1974 - 1975 (Tampa)
1976 (Atlanta)
1977 - 1983 (Dallas)
1982 (Atlanta)
1983 - 1984 (Charlotte)
1984 - 1985 (Dallas)
1986 (San Antonio)
1986 - 1987 ( Dallas)
1988 - 1990 (Atlanta)
That's a career in the South!
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Topics: 2
Replies: 981
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Post: #702466
PT: #3/21
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he never looked down on anybody,he didnot care for jerry at all..and as far as being bland that's okay by me..the manager is not supposed to overshadow the guy he is with.seen a whole lot of managers do that..it's not about you it about the guy you are presenting.dad would say that and so would another guy who is pretty smart,vince mcmahon
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Topics: 244
Replies: 6280
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Post: #702555
PT: #5/21
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That's true, BattleRoyal.It was when Jarrett was booking Atlanta, & He & Gary didn't agree on the way Hart was going to be used. And, of course there may of been other reasons that we're not privy to.
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JAMES BEARD
Topics: 5
Replies: 1066
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Post: #702938
PT: #6/21
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Gary was a dear friend and mentor to me. If anyone I've ever known in the business was the opposite of "predjudice" against any group of people, it would be Gary. Gary was anything but that.
No, he didn't care for the style of wrestling Memphis was known for and he wasn't a fan of Jerry Jarrett, personally. Because he didn't care for a particular philosophy or person does not make him predjudice. Gary spent a huge portion of his career in the south or southwest and I suspect part of that reason was the fact he liked it in those areas and liked the people and culture of those areas. For goodness sake, he lived many years and mostly raised his sons in the Dallas/Ft Worth area and was living there when he died. If nobody noticed, we're pretty "Southern" in Texas.
As far as the "bland" critique, it was always Gary's philosophy that the "threat" of him doing something was much more effective than being overly aggressive or annoying. I happen to completely agree with that notion. Most of the great managers in wrestling were great because of what they represented and not so much what they did. A few were more obvious and over the top in the way they went about things, but personally and as someone who worked closely with a lot of managers, I believe the best of them hardly ever did anything unless it was out of desperation or at a time when it was perfect to get the heat they were supposed to get. A manager who draws too much attention to himself~especially during the course of a match~takes away from what his wrestler's are trying to accomplish in most cases.
Gary generally prefered to work with wrestlers who were skilled and understood how to get their own heat. His presence was an enhancement of that, not the main factor in getting over. I believe that is the highest pupose of a manager in Pro Wrestling and I don't believe anyone did it better than Gary and few did it even remotely as well. After all, the focus should be on the wrestler and what he is doing for the most part and not someone running around outside the ring being obnoxious and taking away from the intended purpose of a wrestling match.
Gary believed in the ability of fans to think, which is something too many bookers and talent forget about. He knew that wrestling fans~even the most avid who generally are thought of as being something less than intelligent~would get the point and believe in the small intricacies of how he presented himself. He didn't look down on fans and try to insult them with illogical talk and actions. He made his points in a "matter of fact" way and did everything he did believably and in a way that even the most skeptical of fans could look back and understand where he was coming from.
Frankly, the fact that Gary was understated in his interviews and had a presence that was about presenting a "threat" as opposed to drawing too much attention to himself are a huge part of why he was so great.
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Topics: 20
Replies: 1507
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Post: #702948
PT: #7/21
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great explantion James.. thanks as always for yout input...
Frank
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Topics: 23
Replies: 641
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Post: #703385
PT: #10/21
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Great wording James. The thing about a great villain is that they believe they are right and can present arguments as to why they are right.
Examples being Gary talking about the superiority and discipline of Oriental athletes as compared to American athletes.
Roddy Piper gave great promos in Toronto talking about when he saw the strung out hippies on Yonge Street, the Italians at Bloor/Lansowne, having to be tougher cos he didn't finish high school, etc.
Bret Hart also did that in the late 90's when he couldn't understand why American fans would turn on him and root for bad guy Steve Austin.
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 sharms |
April 10th, 2012 20:34 GMT |
 
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Topics: 8
Replies: 581
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Post: #705723
PT: #11/21
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This message was edited by sharms on April 10th, 2012 20:38 GMT
Everyone has likes and dislikes...............if you liked Jimmy Hart in the WWF, chances are you didn't care for Gary Hart. Gary never wore costumes, seldom had props and never tried to focus the attention on himself. But most every fan always kept at least one eye on the Playboy. I always loved the illusion of Gary being the only one who could control his wrestler. A towel over Kabuki's head....whatever it was, Gary was the one who had the stroke.
Bottom line......Gary acted like a real manager (of course he was a real manager to a lot of his guys, but I'm talking his work at ringside.) He would watch and analyze.........the way a legitimate manager would. Occasionally, he'd call his guy over and whisper some magical advice....all things one would do if he were really helping his wrestler during the match.
The threat of Gary doing something sinister was as valuable as if he actually got involved. The threat was always there. Whenever I talk about Gary, I tell the story of refereeing a match in, I think, Ft. Worth. Gary was managing Gino at the time and Gino usually had something going with one, or all, of the Von Erichs. This match was Gino and Kevin......Gary grabbed a chair and put it on the floor by Gino's corner. He sat there for most of the match barking orders at Gino and telling me what I was doing wrong. Fairly subtle, but very real. The match went about 15-20 minutes and Kevin had the upper hand. When it was time to go home, Kevin was going to whip a beaten Gino into the ropes and grab the Claw. Miraculously, Gino reversed it and sent Kevin into the ropes. By this time Gary was standing up and took a couple of steps and, at the moment Kevin hit the ropes, Gary grabbed his ankle and tripped him up. Fans went nuts. Kevin's reaction was to go after Gary.....as soon as Kevin made his move, a refreshed Gino grabbed him from behind and rolled him up 1-2-3. I yelled at Gary asking him if he did something. His reaction was simply hands in the air as if he had done nothing. That one, very quick and subtle move almost caused a riot. There was so much heat in WIll Rogers you could feel it.
Here's another subtle thing that happened. In one sense, I needed to have some heat on me for missing Gary's interference.......that had to explain Kevin's losing, but, on the other hand, you really want to get the heat on Gino and Gary. Here's what they did: Kevin was all over me trying to tell me what happened. Gino and Gary were in the ring celebrating the win. Kevin went after them and ran them out of the ring......big pop for Kevin.....big heat on the heels. Kevin comes back and we talk fairly calmly........fans are still hot at me. We pantomime the finish.....Kevin showing he was tripped, I'm showing I didn't see it......after a few seconds, Kevin kind of pats me on the shoulder, as if he understood the kind of thing that can happen when Gary is involved. That removes me from the equation.......shows Kevin as a good guy who was unintentionally screwed by the ref, but mostly screwed by Gary Hart.
That leads to a rematch with Fritz in Kevin's corner to protect him from the evil doings of Gary Hart. Kevin's the hero, Gino/Gary have the heat and the fans have cooled off. That's why it's called manipulation.
I know this is very long-winded and probably boring to many, but it goes to the point that Gary's "less is more" theory was magical. He participated in that match for approx 5 seconds..........just 5 seconds and they got a huge house the next week out of those 5 seconds.
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| sharms |
April 11th, 2012 01:43 GMT |
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Topics: 8
Replies: 581
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Post: #705769
PT: #13/21
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This message was edited by sharms on April 11th, 2012 01:52 GMT
probably 79 or 80.They came back with a rematch, but Fritz was in Kevin's corner. Gary with Gino. Don't remember all of it, but I do know I kicked Fritz out of the match much to the chagrin of the fans. Then a few minutes later I sent Gary packing. In Ft. Worth there was a large area between the ring side seats and the locker rooms. It was open and everyone could see it. On Gary's way back to the room, Fritz jumped him they had a big schmoz on the arena floor. It was fun.
That may have been the night Gino and Kevin got into a legit scrap in the locker room after the match. Just don't remember for sure.
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Topics: 8
Replies: 74
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Post: #706412
PT: #14/21
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I'm late coming back to this, but major thanks to Jason, James Beard, and sharms for their input.
As to the "bland" issue, I guess it comes down to how you look at the word in this context. If it means "not running around the ring, throwing chains, and constantly tripping people or jumping on the apron," I agree that it applies to Gary Hart and that's not a bad thing.
To me, it brings to mind someone who isn't good, but isn't so bad they stand out for it. They're completely forgettable. That does NOT apply to Gary Hart, for the reasons mentioned here as well as his promos, which were simple, to the point, and most importantly, believable. In the context that comes to mind for me, Gary Hart was anything but bland.
Which is why, when I worked as a manager for a small local indie a few years ago, I borrowed the "Playboy" moniker and tried to conduct myself at ringside in a similar fashion. It didn't completely work, as the guys kept wanting me to get more and more involved because that's what they expected managers to do, but even with the extra involvement, it worked quite well.
Then the "promoter" tried to shake down a church group who had legitimately booked the venue months before us and half the crew, including myself and everyone I was working with, walked out. No big loss, as one could find plenty of reasons to distance themselves from these shows, but they were running every week and it was fun for a while.
Anyway, thanks again guys.
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Topics: 9
Replies: 172
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Post: #724350
PT: #15/21
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I recently had the opportunity to manage a tag time on the indy scene in Texas, and I've taken everything I do from Gary. I don't generally get physically involved, but I try to be more subtle. I want the fans to think I'm evil and will get involved, and that threat of possible involvement can be as distracting as grabbing an ankle.
Anyone can think anything they want, but Hart was as good as there ever was.
I had the chance to work for Gary in World Class II (Jason and Chad were there) and I learned so much by watching him in the ring and listening to what he told me about what to say as the ring announcer. I'm grateful for the chance he gave me.
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