| Tennoutdrsman - November 16th, 2013 23:18 GMT |
|
|
|
Edited by Tennoutdrsman on November 16th, 2013 23:18 GMT
Cheapseats you Nailed it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| bigfatlen - November 19th, 2013 05:17 GMT |
|
|
|
UFC is the new old time wrestling. Who wants to see guys pretend to beat each other up when you have a product where the action and the grappling is a real shoot. The only way I see pro wrestling getting a major foothold again is if major sanctions are slapped on MMA but I dont see that happening they run a fairly safe ship over there
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| Zavulon - November 19th, 2013 05:29 GMT |
|
|
|
MMA isn't wrestling though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| cssportsfan - November 19th, 2013 09:05 GMT |
|
|
|
The reason people want to see others "pretend" to beat each other up is because in the UFC, unlike pro wrestling, you cannot guarantee that a match won't be boring. In the UFC, you are stuck with whatever the fighters decide to do, and thus you might end up with a match where both guys circle for fifteen minutes (it's happened many times before.)
At least with pro wrestling, there is a good chance that there will be some action when a match is booked properly.
Also, the way pro wrestling will get a major foothold again is the same way that it did after the UFC's first big boom period. Remember, the UFC came along in 1993 and exploded from 1994-1996.
Wrestling's next boom period happened directly following that thanks to the Hulk Hogan heel turn and associated NWO angle. Meanwhile, Steve Austin set the world on fire in the WWF. The UFC actually came to the WWF asking them to do some cross promotional things once they got Ken Shamrock signed.
Right now, MMA is slowly falling into their own recession period with the UFC not having any stars to fall back on. Just about over major headliner they have had in the last few years is either retiring or talking about retiring with no other major stars on the horizon.
If WWE or even TNA can find the next big thing for professional wrestling that captures the mainstream imagination, the UFC will be the one struggling to get back to its former glory while arena after arena hosting pro wrestling will continue to sell out.
Trust me, if MMA was going to kill wrestling off it would have done it by now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| bigfatlen - November 21st, 2013 14:02 GMT |
|
|
|
------ QUOTE from Zavulon, November 19th, 2013 05:29 GMT ------
MMA isn't wrestling though.
------ QUOTE END ------
No its real grappling. Problem is there are no big money marks wanting to run wrestling now. There are no TV stations that want to put a wrestling TV show on. And if you want to get to the root of a problem WWE and TNA will never find someone that connects with a large audience because there is nowhere for anyone to work on a regular basis anymore to get to a superstar level. Impossible almost to become a great worker just working random indies on the weekends
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| cssportsfan - November 21st, 2013 14:08 GMT |
|
|
|
I wouldn't go that far. The Rock became the Rock on sheer natural talent after only a year in the USWA (during a time when the USWA was a shell of its former self.) So it is still possible to find the next big thing even without the underlying territories.
When the next boom period hits, there will be television producers falling over themselves to get wrestling signed on their networks, and there will also come a time when MMA can't get anyone to pay attention to them outside of the hardcore fight fans. Everything goes in cycles. Wrestling and MMA are no different.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| diamonddulius - November 21st, 2013 23:47 GMT |
|
|
|
Sorry, UFC is dull. I like tag teams. And promos. And masks. And cheating heels. And managers. And silliness. I don't think wrestling and UFC are really comparable... one is an athletic competition, the other a morality play.
And cssportsfan, is the Rock a "great worker"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| Zavulon - November 22nd, 2013 02:16 GMT |
|
|
|
------ QUOTE from bigfatlen, November 21st, 2013 14:02 GMT ------
------ QUOTE from Zavulon, November 19th, 2013 05:29 GMT ------
MMA isn't wrestling though.
------ QUOTE END ------
No its real grappling. Problem is there are no big money marks wanting to run wrestling now. There are no TV stations that want to put a wrestling TV show on. And if you want to get to the root of a problem WWE and TNA will never find someone that connects with a large audience because there is nowhere for anyone to work on a regular basis anymore to get to a superstar level. Impossible almost to become a great worker just working random indies on the weekends
------ QUOTE END ------
Most of the time it isn't grappling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| old school dude - November 22nd, 2013 17:42 GMT |
|
|
|
Edited by old school dude on November 22nd, 2013 17:46 GMT
I could see where MMA/UFC could become simmilar to wrestling. Promos, faces & heels, it could be done but it would have to be done with promos as the heel could not use heel tactics in the ring like a wreslter would do.
Remember, Ali used promos to generate interest in his matches and he admitted that he was copying Georgous George. Also, Brock Lesner cut some heel promos on a guy he was facing a few years ago and it really generated some interest in the bout.
However, I doubt that MMA would become the new territoies or bear very much resembalance to old school wrestling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| cssportsfan - November 22nd, 2013 17:56 GMT |
|
|
|
We might as well kiss territories good bye. That won't be coming back because there is no feasible way it could work. Independent promotions are the closest we will see to that.
Now as far as MMA and pro wrestling, if you want to see just how well the two line up, look at Ken Shamrock vs. Tito Ortiz. This is the bout that saved the UFC, and popped one of the biggest buy rates in UFC history.
At the time, in 2002, the Zuffa company, which runs the UFC, was losing money hand over fist having no clue how to properly market or promote the UFC without television and with years of being blacked out on cable television.
For years, Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz has jawed at one another from afar because of an incident in the late 90s involving Ortiz and one of Shamrock's fighters.
So the fight was finally signed pretty much as a last ditch effort to get people interested. Once it was signed, it was up to Shamrock and Ortiz to promote the bout, and make people interested. It was full blown pro wrestling style promos complete with pull apart brawls at press conferences and in your face "Come November 22nd I'm going to kick your a**" style promos.
Because of the way they handled this aspect of promoting the fight, it became the biggest fight in the three years since Zuffa bought the UFC, and a template for how the most successfully promoted fights ended up being worked in the months leading up to them.
To this day, the UFC practically begs guys to cut promos after their fights to either get the crowd interested in them or get them interested in a future fight with someone. Only a handful understand this, yet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| diamonddulius - November 23rd, 2013 03:33 GMT |
|
|
|
Maybe some of the buildup resembled wrestling, but once they were in the ring, it was a different story... guys rolling around or hitting each other in the face. Until someone gets hit in the head with a chair or someone's face ends up in a cake, I'm just not interested. If anything, UFC has way more in common with boxing than wrestling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| brainbuster - November 24th, 2013 15:22 GMT |
|
|
|
It could never go back completely to the way it was, but with some tweaking I would do it. It is not feasible to have 20 some territories, but 5 regions would work with an NFL Today type studio showing matches from the different territories with their expert analysis. I would do it and i WOULD WIN.!. i
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| cssportsfan - November 25th, 2013 05:13 GMT |
|
|
|
------ QUOTE from brainbuster, November 24th, 2013 15:22 GMT ------
It could never go back completely to the way it was, but with some tweaking I would do it. It is not feasible to have 20 some territories, but 5 regions would work with an NFL Today type studio showing matches from the different territories with their expert analysis. I would do it and i WOULD WIN.!. i
------ QUOTE END ------
You know, if someone thought that through, that could work. Do a national promotion, but break it up into regions as you said. I'd then go to the regional sports networks and have them each air one. Only have them tour in the regions they are promoted in, and rotate the stars as necessary. Then bring them together twice a year (like for Wrestlemania and Starrcade.)
That might not be a bad idea. Hardcore fans could follow it online or buy sports packages to watch all of them. Casual fans would only know the regional stars. Yeah, there might be something to that.
However, WWE did try that in a small scale with Smackdown/Raw, but they threw their own idea under the bus in almost record time. I still think with the right tinkering that might be able to work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| short stint at a dream - November 25th, 2013 15:54 GMT |
|
|
|
Interesting topic and one that has been brought up before. I don't think we will ever see the glory days again in our lifetimes. The reason being, that once McMahon came out and admitted to the world everything is a work, the mystique was gone. Even though most of us knew it was a work, there was always that little bit of uncertainty as to if these guys really had heat. It was fun to believe, but I feel it's gone. I'll also add I'm not happy about it... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| 4thand26 - November 27th, 2013 15:33 GMT |
|
|
|
Politics today is pretty close to old time wrestling. They pretend to dislike/hate each other, but behind close doors, they're the best of friends. The news shows are the announcers/promoters, and the citizens are the fans.
Old time wrestling died when Hogan left Verne for Vince. There have been tidbits here and there over the years, but since WCW was sold to the McMahon's the mystique finally passed away.
Thank God, for Youtube and similar sites.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|